Convener: Gilles

Participants who chose to record their names here:

• Kyle R. Conway (@K_REY_C@social.coop)
• Jaz-Michael King (@jaz@mastodon.iftas.org)
• Sascha (@Sascha@Bonn.social)

Notes

Possible closed instances for schools

Kids like Open Source (they can see how it works and play): https://teckids.org/

Some organizations do public announcements of events using the fediverse: @JugendzentrumK7_Stadt_Bonn@bonn.social

Session Yesterday:

• 11 y.o. not allowed on social media
• Would be great idea to allow for a school &/or class social media (small, closed)
• Risks: Important but not interesting (likely bigger on bigger platforms).
• “public” school yard (allow adults to hear and respond and help).
• Cool things:
  • Fun.
  • Self-hosted - define your own rules.
  • Allow children to set their own rules.
  • Place to learn, allow them to experiment how Social Networking Works
    • Like experiential learning in prep for the “real” world of social media on the web.
  • Allow kids to learn to shape their own environments digitally.
    • e.g. what emoji’s are allowed?
  • Example: Kids used Google Drive like a social network (“you can’t stop the signal”)
• Kyle: Note: Reminds me of this: https://a4kids.org/book/shkola/

JAZ-Michael King

• Schoolyards have fences, software doesn’t.
  • constrained is important for safety.
  • Thinks Bonfire is a good solution here.
• Real world: It’s easier for parents & communities to do this than schools/libraries (because of liability).
  • Tracking: https://connect.iftas.org/library/legal-regulatory/age-verification/
  • Regulation: https://connect.iftas.org/library/legal-regulatory/policy-and-regulation/
• Very worried about this. IFTAS scanned for illegal content (e.g. CSAM).
• Found a lot on the fediverse.
• Possibly literally turn it off on off hours (i.e. moderation is no joke).

Is everything a social network (e.g. google drive)?

• JAZ
  • Defined by regulation. In some cases: Share something someone can see? That’s a social network.
  • Many countries have forthcoming laws.

KYLE:

• Are big networks doing it well?
• Will we need small networks in the future due to regulation in the future?

JAZ

• Regulators are cutting out small providers, even though small, federated is the solution.
• Finding a way to keep us able to grow while they’re taking such stances (regulatory, enforcement)…
• We’re going to have 2-3 interesting years:
  • Growing enforcement
  • “they can’t really, can they?”
• Take a photo & decide if you’re old enough — obviously shit.

Currently prohibit own children from accessing social media

• Mind changed (somewhat) with “TecKids” program
  • kids have a right of communication, information
  • one instance of CSAM, enough for life, understand what mods go through.
• Prefer children use something democratically guided, where they’re not the product - a public playground.
  • Parents close by, rules, older = more freedom.
  • Must learn to fall down
  • Will adjust based on age.
• Some 9 y.o. using tiktok on phones (and whatsapp), but signed up and know it’s wrong, but asking what adult thinks of it.
• Want to make fediverse/mastodon attractive (and safe) for young people.
• I thought gaming was an interesting part (e.g. minecraft - Luanti/MineTest; work adventure)
  • WorkAdventure allows creation of the map and digital proximity communication.
• Parental control improtant
  • iOS has this (e.g. make it a children’s device).
    • Timing, apps, oversight.
  • Recommendation: Parental controls on the fediverse
    • Could replace Whatsapp BS.
    • Other people currently take photos on holiday and thoughtlessly post to telegram, IG, etc.
    • Solutions for families & federation.
• Want to protect kids from data-harvesting, but allow them to use safe services and let them communicate.
  • Totally agree. Understand limitations, more interesting in creative solutions that are fun.

JAZ

• Has worked with Bonfire (potential solution) for a while.
  • In a 1.0 release candidate
  • Working on implementing consent processes.
• How I got into Mastodon was trying to build a solution for myself
  • Family-focused services would be a killer app
  • Remember child getting older android device (on parent upgrade)
    • Eventually experienced begging for iPhone (peer-pressure)
• Yubo - France. (I think it’s Yubo www.yubo.live) - thanks!
  • Segregated network: 13-17 only interact with each other.
  • UK & French government consider this regulatorily complient
• Bonfire:
  • Won’t release until it’s got complience and safety figured out.
  • It’s for communities.
• Needs: Convice regulators &/or …

Is it a loophole if the kids make it themselves?

• JAZ - Probably not? Account creator probably has liability.
  • Unlikely issues if family <-> family server setup

Matrix server at school? No.

• Sometimes parents set this up.

Screen Share: WorkAdventure World

CCC Event

• Used Decentralized Maps on WorkAdventure for event.
• Maps connected via loopholes.

Possible to get the timeline of, e.g., Taylor Swift - without the cruft, ads, tracking, and or ability to interact.

“I was 14, and it was not okay [to be connected to the internet]”

Bad content seen in a safe environment is less bad.

JAZ

• Australia: national cultural approach is the same as teaching kids not to get bit by sharks.
  • It’s the real world.
  • You will swim.
  • Duty of care from parent to not expect Gov. to remove all sharks.
  • We want swimming, and sharks exist.
  • Some of this is our problem, and we want to give you the tools to do it.
• Bonfire
  • IDEA: Curated federation
    • Kids are allowlist only.
    • “DADMIN / MOMIN (ADMOM)” (dad/mom admins)
    • Content can come in (determined by family editor).
      • By family member, kid.
    • $5/month max
      • Ad-free, consent based, grow-with-your-kids
      • Parental control
    • Kyle - Possible when, e.g. taylor swift is not on the fediverse?
    • JAZ - Regulatory pressure is coming, so interoperability as a requirement may open this up as a possibility.
      • JAZ Happy to help in any way. I’m findable online.