Convener: Johannes Ernst (@j12t@social.coop) with his https://dazzlelabs.net hat on and Shannon Clark (@rycaut@mastodon.social)

Notes-taker(s): everyone!

Participants who chose to record their names here:

• Jeremiah Lee (@Jeremiah@alpaca.gold)
• Matthias Pfefferle (@pfefferle@mastodon.social)
• Palak Sheth (@palak_sheth@mastodon.social)
• Anca Mosoiu (@anca@allpeep.social)
• Samir Al-Battran (@samir@m.fedica.com)
• Andre Kudra (@kudrix@mastodon.social)
• Scott M. Stolz (@scott@authorship.studio)

Discussion

• Why aren’t more organizations running their own Fediverse server?
• User account provisioning, role-based access control (RBAC)
• News org writing a lot of articles about the fediverse when asked why they weren’t on there, they noted they tried, but were not made welcome by people already there.

A few key topics:

• enterpreise vs enterprise’s customers/users/members
• needs of the enterprise vs other people running instances
• integration with authentication (vor individuals and groups within the org)
• support for apps to manage group accounts (marketing, pr etc)
• integration with their non-fediverse sites/content
• record retention (for regulated businesses expecially)
• organizations would start from zero users
  • Lack of their customers being on the fediverse is a primary argument against large organizations caring about the fediverse. If there were customers to connect with, businesses would join immediately.
• want it to be provided by their existing software (CRM, or social media management)
• Customer support and marketing departments generally don’t get IT support. They need to buy something to get help.
  • Joining the fediverse requires having a web presence (join a server) in addition to the tools to support social media managers and customer support teams.
• Executive perception of fediverse sometimes negative. Needs influence from social media managers to change that.
  • Many orgs got their initial understanding of the Fediverse from a while ago (when Musk acquired Twitter) and have not changed their views since
• Cultural problems from Mastodon backlash (commercial presence in any form) requires different engagement because the user base is quite different from other social networks at the moment.
  • Might change quickly when Threads starts to federate because it has a very mainstream userbase compared to the current Mastodon userbase.
• Flipboard bringing brands and publishers to the fediverse because they already have established relationship with Flipboard
  • Single biggest selling point for publishers: a direct relationship with audience; own your audience, don’t rent it
• Value propositions: I believe the Fediverse offers enterprises a unique value proposition by providing better insights into their community’s while maintaining ownership and control of their data. Unlike traditional social media platforms, where concerns about competitors raiding communities without permission are prevalent, the Fediverse prioritizes community control and privacy. This allows brands and communities to engage in deeper conversations without being disrupted by random distractions or competing algorithms. However, for the Fediverse to be truly effective for brands and enterprises, it needs to ensure that onboarding processes and user interfaces align seamlessly with their needs and preferences. It will also be a great way for brands to target and communicate likeminded enthusiasts and those who are interested in their products and services without it feeling like spam
• Mastodon probably not the right software for big companies to use. Complex, expensive to operate, not aligned with customer support and social media managers use cases. They already have websites. They need a lower level thing that uses their existing website and online presence.
• Paid reach required for Facebook Page’s posts to actually be seen by followers gets expensive. Could possibly come to Threads since it seems to be using a very Instagram-like algorithm.
  • Brands spend tens of millions to do this with Facebook today.
• What happens if Slack tries to add ActivityPub to federate? Likely to see more enterprise software join in. User norms likely will change as personal and professional use cases come about.
• Value proposition: Verifying someone they encounter online is who they say they are. The domain adds credibility. This is something brands can’t get elsewhere.
• What do we need to do have outreach to businesses to get them on the fediverse? Is there collective action to take?
  • Direct instructions, how to do it as a brand
  • Case studies, who did it, how it worked, what the benefits were
  • Better server solutions, Mastohost turnkey solutions, but possibly different server tech
  • Consultants: guides who help them get setup, technical, social
• Have to prepare for most businesses’ first exposure to the fediverse being Threads. They already have Instagram accounts with followings that bootstrap their Threads following.
• New things like community tools can bring people to businesses, not just for social media-like engagement. Business cases beyond customer support and brand marketing
• E.g. hiring

From the chat:

Customer support and marketing departments generally don’t get IT support. They need to buy something to get help.

One argument for enterprises to be on the fediverse is brand safety - i.e. to verify their presence and not cede it to bots pretending to be them (why I would argue they should use subdomains of their main domain vs new domains)

👍 One argument for enterprises to be on the fediverse is brand safety - i.e. to verify their presence and not cede it to bots pretending to be them (why I would argue they should use subdomains of their main domain vs new domains) Yes, this.

Using Fedica to use Bluesky :) I think social media managers are not welcome on the fediverse, and that’s a big issue

They are welcome on Threads and Bluesky, but not Mastodon

They are welcome on Threads and Bluesky, but not Mastodon what do you mean by not woelcome?

what do you mean by not woelcome? There are quite a few fedifolks who carry pitchforks when anything they don’t like join the fediverse.

The user base on Mastodon is very much against businesses posting on Mastodon, sadly is a culture issue

I think social media managers are not welcome on the fediverse, and that’s a big issue Yes

There are quite a few fedifolks who carry pitchforks when anything they don’t like join the fediverse. exactly. We get that quite a bit, also our customers too!

The user base on Mastodon is very much against businesses posting on Mastodon, sadly is a culture issue Agreed there’s a huge amount of suspicion

I also find this behavior to be rather contained. On my smaller server, I rarely see this. I only hear about it later as subtweets about some drama happening about something.

I also find this behavior to be rather contained. On my smaller server, I rarely see this. I only hear about it later as subtweets about some drama happening about something. for sure, it’s not the majority, but you only want few negative instances to form a negative opinion of the platorm

for sure, it’s not the majority, but you only want few negative instances to form a negative opinion of the platorm And they can be very vocal

We’ve had people who view our small charity as a big bad corporation. And it does create a bad feeling of the platform 👍

I would also note that Apple without having a corporate presence on the Fediverse actually has amazing participation by their employees across the Fediverse

Isn’t the Fediverse more like an elaborated community effort which requires tech ops and moderators and more? So understanding that this is more a high involvement activity for whoever wants to join as host is key? 👍

Social graph ownership is huge

I believe the Fediverse offers enterprises a unique value proposition by providing better insights into their community’s while maintaining ownership and control of their data. Unlike traditional social media platforms, where concerns about competitors raiding communities without permission are prevalent, the Fediverse prioritizes community control and privacy. This allows brands and communities to engage in deeper conversations without being disrupted by random distractions or competing algorithms. However, for the Fediverse to be truly effective for brands and enterprises, it needs to ensure that onboarding processes and user interfaces align seamlessly with their needs and preferences. It will also be a great way for brands to target and communicate likeminded enthusiasts and those who are interested in their products and services without it feeling like spam

fediverse can (and I would argue should) be more than just media - for example today if someone contacts you even on a platform like LinkedIn and claims to be a recruiter you can’t easily verify that they are who they claim to be.

I believe the Fediverse offers enterprises a unique value proposition by providing better insights into their community’s while maintaining ownership and control of their data. Unlike traditional social media platforms, where concerns about competitors raiding communities without permission are prevalent, the Fediverse prioritizes community control and privacy. This allows brands and communities to engage in deeper conversations without being disrupted by random distractions or competing algorithms. However, for the Fediverse to be truly effective for brands and enterprises, it needs to ensure that onboarding processes and user interfaces align seamlessly with their needs and preferences. It will also be a great way for brands to target and communicate likeminded enthusiasts and those who are interested in their products and services without it feeling like spam Is it ok to quote this in the notes?

Of course

Related: Paid reach in the Facebook algorithm is expensive

My experience with Mastodon, I had an engineer create an instance for a few days and couldn’t get it to work, then had another engineer work on it to actually get it to work. We then changed our domain (rebrand) and and to create a new instance again. It’s very time consuming. We really wanted to get an instance, but I don’t see how an average organization would think about setting up their presence on the Fediverse

I suspect paid reach will be the primary monetization method of Threads sooner than later.

My experience with Mastodon, I had an engineer create an instance for a few days and couldn’t get it to work, then had another engineer work on it to actually get it to work. We then changed our domain (rebrand) and and to create a new instance again. It’s very time consuming. We really wanted to get an instance, but I don’t see how an average organization would think about setting up their presence on the Fediverse This is a really common experience! There are some SaaS tools, like https://masto.host/ , but we need better turnkey services.

I suspect paid reach will be the primary monetization method of Threads sooner than later. That’s inevitable.

I spoke with a brand last week that had spent $20M to buy 20 million likes on Facebook in the early days with the promise that they’d have the ability to reach those users. Obviously they came to realize that was not the case and they will never forgive Facebook for it.

👍👍 Agreed - it is really quite tricky - and yes, as soon as you change your domain you can’t change that on the server

I spoke with a brand last week that had spent $20M to buy 20 million likes on Facebook in the early days with the promise that they’d have the ability to reach those users. Obviously they came to realize that was not the case and they will never forgive Facebook for it. Great example

My experience with Mastodon, I had an engineer create an instance for a few days and couldn’t get it to work, then had another engineer work on it to actually get it to work. We then changed our domain (rebrand) and and to create a new instance again. It’s very time consuming. We really wanted to get an instance, but I don’t see how an average organization would think about setting up their presence on the Fediverse 👍👍 Agreed - it is really quite tricky - and yes, as soon as you change your domain you can’t change that on the server

If there were customers to connect with, businesses would join immediately.

If there were customers to connect with, businesses would join immediately. This catch-22 influences my advice to put at least some emphasis on organizations and communities who are motivated to connect closely rather than extend reach broadly.

ironically cheap services can actually be hard for enterprises to buy (they assume they aren’t targeted to enterprises)

So fedicurious. bring them to brands.town! /ducks