Convener: Christine Galvagna

Participants who chose to record their names here:

• Jayne Samuel-Walker (@tcmuffin@toot.wales)
• Jaz-Michael King (@jaz@toot.wales, @iftas@mastodon.iftas.org)
• @chewie@mammut.gogreenit.net
• Jeremiah Lee (@Jeremiah@alpaca.gold)
• Sandra Barthel (@samvie@chaos.social)
• @yawnbox@disobey.net
• BjornW (@BjornW@mastodon.social)
• Scott Jenson (@scottjenson@social.coop)
• William Maggos (@wjmaggos@liberal.city)
• Paul Fuxjäger (@cypherhippie@chaos.social)
• Joan Pla (@joanpla@mastodon.social)
• @ozoned@social.ozoned.net

Draft: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1M137bi60K-VZKg3ZNlheV3cVPbIHQ8zsZSKPIzzbZ-A/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.7rsmrmxuly4b

Notes

• Christine: Definition of decentralized social network on page 3 ok?
  • Jeremiah: Maybe “These networks support sharing content in variety of media formats.” instead of microblogging.
  • Are chat and private messaging social networks?
    • Jeremiah: Is Discord a social network? I think so because it’s posting and community. Is private group chat social media? I think so because it’s private sharing to a social group. The UI is different from a Facebook group, but it’s effectively the same thing of privately sharing to a group of people.
• Christine: Page 16: Assertion of VC less available for decentralized networks. Is this true?
  • Bluesky is VC backed. Aware of one other fund.
  • Scott: Many people already on social web don’t want VC in the space and are anti-capitalist.
  • VCs interested in financial outcomes above all else. If you don’t have a way to 10x their investment, they aren’t interested. “Incentive to create safe public discourse is different from incentive to create pile of money”
  • Some VC in Japan
  • Dansup (Pixelfed) was posting that VCs have approached him - eg: https://mastodon.social/@dansup/113849013645359473
  • “VC is the US model. Open source is the EU model.” The Web was created in Europe with public money. There is historical justification for ActivityPub’s development here.
    • Clarification: Maybe a “Silicon Valley model” not the whole US.
  • Not anti-capitalist, but anti-specific kind of capitalism. There are forms of capitalism where it is there for the benefit of both people providing and people consuming. Coops for example. Not winner take all.
    • Scott: There is also “open core” model some groups follow: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-core_model
• Christine: Page 23: focus on backend, not frontend, not marketing
  • Jeremiah: NLnet does provide funded support of non-tech aspects, but generally doesn’t fund those efforts directly. Marketing, community management, accessibility, security reviews are supplementary to grants.
• Christine: Recommendations starting in page 27
  • DMA, DSA worth recognizing. Public broadcasting funding was provided in the past. New public service institution. Ian Forrester (former BBC) has written about this.
  • Björn: In NL, working with libraries to be stewards of these kinds of online communities. Knowledge access point argument for digital government. Working on this with PublicSpaces.net. Blender software project combines development of the software with the use of the software. Backend and frontend seems too specific. Creators of the software and those who are using the software in their work.
    • Babette (who had the session 2 room on institutions and fedi) would be the person to ask more about Dutch (university) libraries
  • Scott: Funding historically is for very specific feature implementaiton. But we need regular funding to employ people.
  • Jeremiah: Creators of the social network community server software are different from the operators of that software are different from the users of that software. We need funding for both the software development itself and (at least kickstarting) funding for the operation of community services. The goal is to have many small servers. Large capital requirements for starting public tv stations. Legal and moderator operational costs.
  • Jaz: Philanthropists known for not providing operational costs. Build the rugby field, not maintain it. Social web has more moderators than Twitter. Half of Meta’s. Most of them are not paid. These are not hosting costs. These are general costs of running a social network. If you take away moderators, you have software, not a social network. We can all install software, so why is this the better thing to fund?
  • Ozoned: Universities as target operators worth funding
• Deadline of Oct 9, Have Your Say due in Nov
• Page 31: European Sovereign Tech Fund feedback
  • Chewie in chat: https://publiccode.eu/en/
  • Björn: When does the EU stop funding this?
    • Jeremiah: When we stop funding when we no longer use FLOSS and social networks.
    • Jaz: Stop funding it the same day we stop funding village halls, city parks, and roads.